Winter 46er list

[mavs00]

I wonder if ole' George, Bob & Herbie look down on all of us and say that very same thing.

Not much you can do except take pride in what YOU have done. For me, I won't take any less pride when I look at my 46r patch, even knowing my 11 y/o daughter was able to do the same frigging thing. Congrats on ALL you "w" finishers and take justifed pride in how you got there. Hell, you don't get w+ on your rocker cuz just you broke every trail along the way now do ya.

If it makes you feel better, I got lots of respect to all of you guys that have taken the "w" journey, even those of you who stole one or two along the way

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by Neil

This discussion keeps popping up. If someone feels that their achievement is devalued because someone else gets the same "credit" for way less work, chutz-pah, balls or whatever, then that means that their achievement's worth is related not to their own inner sense of value but to what others think about it. Who cares about the others? You know what you did, what it means, how tough it was etc. The rocker is a common symbol of a highly uncommon and personal achievement.

Neil, I think you tagged the nail right on the head here, and said it all very directly and succinctly.

Now . . .

Without wishing to disparage anyone, another comment from this discussion very nicely summed up what makes my skin crawl:

. . . It isn't to make it harder for yourself, it's to make it harder for others.

To some people, seeing others get their winter46 rocker by always following broken trails, lessens the value of their own. . . .

That conveys an attitude quite contrary to the customarily generous nature of most hikers and mountain people I’ve met over 50-plus years of tramping around in the boonies. The idea that making something harder for others preserves or heightens the value of one’s own accomplishment is just beyond my ken. I always thought the greater glory was to be gained by being of good will and service to others, not by hindering them. But to each his own, I guess.

G.

[Pete_Hickey]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

The idea that making something harder for others preserves or heightens the value of one’s own accomplishment is just beyond my ken. I always thought the greater glory was to be gained by being of good will and service to others, not by hindering them. But to each his own, I guess.

Not necessarily harder, just not easier. Suppose that the club would give out patches either to someone who climbed the 46, OR to someone who donated more than, say, $5,000 to some environmental cause. Would that make you feel like your patch is worth less? Suppose they simply sold them at the Mountaineer, and anyone could buy them. Would that make a difference?

Taking it into a different world things DO make a difference. I got my university degree through 4 years of hard work. There are companies (read your spam) that will sell you uniiversity degrees for only $49.00. Can these lessen the value of something.

FWIW, it doesn'T bother me one way or the other. I climbed the way I wanted to, and my winter rocker is still on the top of the refridgerator, where it has been for years.

But I do understand how some others feel.

[Pete_Hickey]

Originally Posted by mavs00

I wonder if ole' George, Bob & Herbie look down on all of us and say that very same thing.

You do realize that some peaks were easier for them than they are these days. In particular, the Sewards. Before the 50's hurricaine the forests were very open, and there were logging roads leading close to the summits.

[mavs00]

Originally Posted by Pete_Hickey

You do realize that some peaks were easier for them than they are these days. In particular, the Sewards. Before the 50's hurricaine the forests were very open, and there were logging roads leading close to the summits.

Yes, Street and Nye were covered with open "cinderella forest" too. I know all that, You get my point, Becoming a 46er in the 2000's (or even 80's & 90's) is different then it was becoming one in the 1920's, I hope we agree there.

For instance, most modern day hikers at least drive to the LOJ to start hikes, those dudes used to walk

[Reekee]

Mike, My number on your site is 280 and it's 279 on the 46er site. Which is correct? Thanks Reekee

[mike1889]

Originally Posted by Reekee

Mike, My number on your site is 280 and it's 279 on the 46er site. Which is correct? Thanks Reekee

280 is correct. I haven't sent the updated list to the 46er Webmaster to update the web page yet, will do that shortly. There was one finisher who finished in 2001 who just reported her climbs, and that bumped everyone who finished after her up one number. The numbers for Winter 46ers aren't official, like the numbers for regular 46ers are. So if someone reports late, they are put in the correct chronological location and the numbers are increased. I just updated the list on the first post to include 2 new Winter 46ers who just reported, #308 and #311.

[Reekee]

So my 46er number is not subject to change. That is good news because I have a really neat number. It's 5344. Does that number ring a bell? Thanks again Mike. Reekee

[Tom Rankin]

Originally Posted by Reekee

So my 46er number is not subject to change. That is good news because I have a really neat number. It's 5344. Does that number ring a bell? Thanks again Mike. Reekee

Gee I like my number too! And a friend of mine is 4445.

Can you tell I'm fascinated with numbers?

[Cloudsplitter]

To me the arguments presented in this thread are common debates that extend across all of outdoor sport. Think of the neverending debates in mountaineering communities about the "correct" ways to scale some of the world's highest peaks...Oxygen or no oxygen? Sherpas or no sherpas? Fixed routes or alpine style? The debates will probably go on forever. I'll grant that we are certainly talking about things on a very different level here, but the core issue is the same: What exactly places value on or devalues someone's outdoor achievements? Along those lines let me pose a question to those of you who are talking about "stealing" summits and feeling your accomplishments lessened by the acts of others...Would any of you, upon summiting an 8000 meter peak, feel a surge of disappointment at the fact that you relied on sherpas to help you reach the summit?? I think not. In such things we often become so wrapped up in the behaviors of those around us that we cheat ourselves out of enjoyable experiences.
-C

[Warren]

Originally Posted by Pete_Hickey

To some people, seeing others get their winter46 rocker by always following broken trails, lessesn the value of their own. Going back rather far, when Ed Bean, Guy Waterman, Fred Hunt, etc got theirs, it was a REAL challenge. So one of those guys tells someone they climbed the winter 46, that someone says, 'so what? Lots of people do it.'

This is more or less what I was trying to point out- after the first the accomplishment does get "easier", the psychological "can it be done" has been answered and that can be a huge thing. As time goes on trails, knowledge of good bad routes, the presence of others attempting the same thing, improved weather reports, all make it easier over time. Despite that an individual can still choose to approach their climbing in a manner that negates many of these advantages.

I had forgotten how the storms of the past 50+ years affected the openness of the forest.

[Reekee]

Originally Posted by Tom Rankin

Gee I like my number too! And a friend of mine is 4445.

Can you tell I'm fascinated with numbers?

We humans seem to be concerned about numbers, style, and our accomplishments. But I do like my number and your for that matter.
In response to the other threads:
To be truthful, most people in my life couldn't name two Adirondack High Peaks, little own care about the winter 46. If I climbed for admiration I was sadly mistaken. If I climbed to be unique, I was more so before I started. Every recognized accomplishment, big or small, has to be followed up with a publicity campaign. So, to keep myself in check, when I come home from each trip I tell my 6yr. old of all the wonderful mountains I climbed. Then I ask her if she loves me more now. I always get the same answer. Few people care about my accomplishments and that has to be ok. Reekee

[MBresle]

Originally Posted by Skyclimber2971w

Again I did not say anything that anyone else diminished my experience in any way. It's how I made the climb and the friendships along, that determined my experience and fun along the trails.

Stealing a peak to me, is "when one person works their butt off to get to the top of a peak and someone else just "waltzes" in after and has a cake walk to the summit." I also will say that I have agreed on many occasions with my hiking partner, "that we had all the fun," while breaking trails. Although we have had some of those "cake walks" ourselves. We though, however, did not rely on the Internet to get our peaks, we broke our own way, when needed. I do not share my info on the trails we broke. Let the others work just as hard as we did. Isn't that what Winter Climbing is all about? Excitement and challenge to the summits? Not knowing if your going to reach the top or not? Or has the new challenge become "how many cake walks can we get to the summits?"

Oh yes, I have already come to grips of reality on how Winter Climbing has changed throughout the years, as one put it to me, "you climbed in the Canister Era but now we are in the Computer Era," of climbing. Quite a difference. But my time of climbing was much more fun.

I've got to agree with you here, except on one point, or perhaps exception. I'll be the first to admit that since i've been stuck in atlanta for the last four years (thank god i'm finally returning to New York this fall) i haven't really had the chance to do much winter climbing. If you show up at a trail and it is already broken, i see nothing wrong with the climb. if you come upon the group that's breaking it, do your share and offer to take point for a while. If you find out that person x is doing hike y on an unbroken trail and show up just to have them break it for you or come upon the group that is breaking trail and do nothing, that is stealing a peak. Have you earned the peak through hiking it? technically yes, but it's that much cheaper and that much less of an accomplishment.

MMB
46R 5048

[Peakbagr]

And I think the point Marta was making is your last one. That the internet, and things like the Trails Conditions have made "advance scouting" of whats broken out a science for many.

[MBresle]

Originally Posted by Peakbagr

And I think the point Marta was making is your last one. That the internet, and things like the Trails Conditions have made "advance scouting" of whats broken out a science for many.

I miss the simple days, "i'm doing santanoni on sunday [not really, but a guy can dream], i'll check the weather reports and will bring what i'll need for all conditions" with the obligatory 'shucks, it's raining/snowing/sunny/broken/unbroken etc.'
lol

mmb 46r5048